Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 12:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Betrayed by the Bailout: The Death of Democracy
By William Cox

On this date, October 3, 2008, the American people were betrayed by those whom they had elected to represent them. The members of Congress who voted for the Wall Street "bailout" violated their oath of office to "support and defend the Constitution" ... "that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same" ... "and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: ..."

Without holding any meaningful hearings or public discussions and listening only to those most responsible for the economic disaster, Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, Congress abdicated its responsibility to the American people.

Locking out most members from all discussions, the congressional "leadership" emerged from their backrooms with legislation that grants Secretary Paulson the ability to spend at least $700 billion to "take such actions as [he] deems necessary" ... " to promote financial market stability."

Entrusting tremendous political and financial power (and a ton of borrowed money that taxpayers will have to repay with interest) into Paulson’s sole discretion, members of Congress must have been aware that, prior to his cabinet appointment in 2006, Paulson worked for 32 years at Goldman Sacks, one of the Wall Street firms that stands to benefit greatly from his "actions."

Paulson, who cashed out his Goldman stock valued at $575 million to become the Secretary of Treasury (without having to pay any taxes on the sale), earned more than $53 million in pocket change during just his last two years at Goldman Sacks for innovations such as a new line of "Mortgage Backed Securities." Gambling more than a trillion dollars on risky subprime second mortgages, Paulson cleverly converted them into AAA-rated "secure" investments by purchasing guarantees from the American International Group.

AIG, coincidentally, was just "bailed out" two weeks ago by Secretary Paulson for $85 billion (of borrowed money that taxpayers will have to repay with interest), averting a devastating loss by Goldman Sacks, who was holding more than $20 billion in otherwise worthless second mortgages.

Is it surprising that Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman’s current CEO, was present with Paulson when the decision was made to bailout AIG?

The bailout’s $700 billion price tag is only an arbitrary guess by Paulson and is most likely just the first installment of many more to come. Other economists, with more successful track records, believe the total will be much greater, perhaps $5 trillion, as concealed losses are uncovered and foreign companies dump their toxic investment waste into their American offices.

Posted by JakPott on October 4, 2008 at 2:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Surge smurge....what idiot thinks all of a sudden, peace will envelope that area. Any historical examples of such ? A ten billion a week last hurrah...before declaring 'victory'

A 800 billion dollar bailout for a 10.5 trillion dollar debt. Dick and george (and paulson) are counting their new fortunes in a Dubai spread thanks to ye taxpayers....

As for locally grown farm raised meat..well, ya know the old adage...think globally, eat locally.

Moderators: KEEP ASKIN THE SAME QUESTION TILL YA GET AN ANSWER !!

ps: the kraut is betting on an Obama win...

Posted by RalphShnelvar on October 4, 2008 at 5:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CAROLYN KRUGER: "I believe this is another example of oil companies out to make a killing...another reason we should explore all options to decrease our need for oil."

Oil is only one component of gasoline. Oil and gasoline are not the same thing.

To turn oil into gasoline you have to "refine" it. Then you got to get it from where it was refined to where it is to be consumed.

The US does not have enough refining capacity. A new refining plant has not been built in the US for nearly thirty years.

And the pipelines from the refineries to the delivery points have been damaged in the recent hurricanes.

So, with an inadequate supplies of the refined product (gasoline) at the point where people want to consume it ... what do you want the oil companies to do?

The market rewards those with the foresight or the luck to sell a scarce resource.

For an explanation of this complex idea, watch the movie, *Forest Gump*.

Ralph Shnelvar
Proudly running as a Libertarian for Boulder County Commissioner from District 1.

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 6:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"We have watched the price at the pumps increase as oil increased in price. Now, as the price is decreasing at a fast pace, I do not see the gas stations responding in kind."

Diesel is down almost a buck. Also, as the price of crude went up 3X, the price of gasoline only went up about 70%. Stop with the absurd conspiracy theories...makes you look silly.

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 6:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"it would make more sense to allocate the funds to the victims of foreclosure so they can, at least, regain their home."

Victims!? You couldn't summarize the problem with the left better than that statement.

Stupid people with bad credit get loans they can't afford to pay back, and the government (read: our tax dollars) are supposed to 'help' them out buy giving them their house for free or paying for a big chunk of it while the rest of us have to work our tails off to pay our own mortgages.

Clinton put pressure on Fannie and Freddie to lower lending requirements...now the people with the crappy credit who blow off their mortgages are victims?

Maybe we can start bailing out people that don't make their car payments by having the government buy them all cars. Then we can raise taxes to pay off their credit cards too, because, you know, they didn't understand they were supposed to pay it back.

Everyone is a victim in the world of the left. Personal responsibility only applies to the wealthy, who are needed to pay for the rescue of everyone else.

Lowering the credit bar was well intended. I believe Clinton's heart was in the right place trying to make home ownership within reach to more Americans. Unfortunately, like so many social engineering experiments, human nature trumped Utopian idealism.

Posted by rcljr1220 on October 4, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No new refining capacity in 30 years begs the question of what the oil companies are doing with their well publicized profits. Shouldn't some of that largesse be poured into company infrastructure (aka new refining capacity) and increasing supply? OOOPPPSSS...That would impact profits. What a bad idea.

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 7:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In 1999, the NY Times ran an article that not only explains what got us into this mess, but included a frightening foreshadow of what could happen:

"Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people "

Then later in the piece....

"In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's."

Here is a link to the full article:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage...

People trying to blame money managers are attacking a symptom. Without lowering credit guidelines, none of this would have happened.

Posted by Robert_Paul_Smoke on October 4, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

saying the surge worked is a little like saying the atomic bomb worked --

iraq is a complete disaster zone -- millions displaced, horrible conditions for those living there at present --

puppet government really only a government to a handful of the people remaining and struggling to survive via some type of government job --

the surge was a success?

try reading http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2...

or

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/...

before you predictably hurl epithets, come up with 'blowing smoke' word play, etc., try reading the above and then contest something actually written or implied by the articles --

Posted by Robert_Paul_Smoke on October 4, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

the bailout, the war in iraq, the dismantling of the constitution --

when does america get that america has been scammed?

Posted by grossman on October 4, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LIAM MONTFLOR; good, brief analysis. However, you forgot the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad and other areas. estimated 4 million refugees: 2M in Syria, 2M 'internal'. Heckuva job, Patraeus, the refugees just love you.

Posted by lcsyzygy on October 4, 2008 at 7:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Victims!? You couldn't summarize the problem with the left better than that statement."

Anyone have any data on how many people who have defaulted on loans they couldn't afford in the first place are dems/repubs?

I'm willing to bet people with an inflated sense of entitlement cross all party lines.

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I'm willing to bet people with an inflated sense of entitlement cross all party lines."

Probably, but on the whole, you are much more likely to hear someone on the left refer to people who buy stuff they can't afford as "victims". Do you disagree?

Posted by mcbuffs on October 4, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Probably, but on the whole, you are much more likely to hear someone on the left refer to people who buy stuff they can't afford as "victims". Do you disagree?"

Yes, I do disagree. I know enough people on the right to know that they are just as compassionate as people on the left. Do you disagree?

Posted by thefishheadsoup on October 4, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

IXL - this is not a right or left problem, and it clearly is not a only a problem of the CRA or securitization and resecuritization and insurance and reinsurance of horrible debt.

we are a debter nation and a nation of indebted servants.

credit card companies, and more recently the mortgage industry, has served their own usurious needs by making making credit too easy. we have all been bombarded by bs credit advertising.

are those folks victims. NO. but is the banking industry a victim - HELL NO. i say let all the people who have lived in excess through their sense of entitlement go down. let all the companies that went their with them go down to.

this is just the proverbial tip of the iceberg. old stogie knows we've been bamboozled. every american owes about 100,000 grand on the national debt. there was a time when credit needed to be earned, not just given away like a sample of frosted flakes.

the problem isn't just the impoverished either. there are plenty of folks around boulder county with their leased a-6 and volvo cross country and new home addition and refi again to take a 100g out of the overinflated home.

free money isn't free, and if we don't start paying now our childre and theirs certainly will.
all this debt is the biggest tax yoke (joke), and it has led to an erosion of all of our liberties!

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Compassion has nothing to do with it and is a typical tactic used by the left as a smokescreen. Loans were made to millions who already proved by their credit histories they were unlikely to repay them. With the market going up, it was invisible because they could sell and keep the appreciation. But now that the market has corrected, we are supposed to buy their houses for them? That is not compassion, that is stupidity.

You are obviously one of the people who think people have a right to buy stuff they can't afford; and we should pay for it when they can't.

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

fishead:

I agree with you all around. I think the bankers who traded in crappy mortgage backed securities are morons and should be held accountable. But it is important to point out what got us in the jam in the first place; a social engineering project with good intentions that was trumped by human nature. Anyway, good post.

Posted by thefishheadsoup on October 4, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

credit card companies and mortgage companies that make indentured servants out of people by charging usurious rates to the dumbest of the dumb should get what they deserve as well.

you should check out the documentary maxed out.

and if you look at the stats, it's not just the poor and the social engineering of the CRA, there are plenty of "upper middle class" defaulting on loans, plenty of dumb folks who refied to take money they never really had.

the folks with the cash are complicit.

Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The world's top 10 military spenders and the approximate amounts each country currently budgets for its military establishment are:
1. United States (FY08 budget), $623 billion
2. China (2004), $65 billion
3. Russia, $50 billion
4. France (2005), $45 billion
5. United Kingdom, $42.8 billion
6. Japan (2007), $41.75 billion
7. Germany (2003), $35.1 billion
8. Italy (2003), $28.2 billion
9. South Korea (2003), $21.1 billion
10. India (2005 est.), $19 billion
World total military expenditures (2004 est.), $1,100 billion
World total (minus the United States), $500 billion

Posted by pjs on October 4, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Carolyn Kruger - if you compare the sharp price rise of crude to the increase in pump prices, you will see that the oil companies actually made LESS PER GALLON during the peak pricing periods. Here's where to get a chart showing the comparison:

http://www.coloradogasprices.com/reta...

Set up a chart showing the 18-month history of Colorado prices with the crude oil price. It's easy to blame "big oil", but please, get your facts straight! The profit margin on gasoline has declined, not increased, over the 18 months. So it would be expected that the pump price will decline slower than the crude price as oil companies attempt to recover some losses.

Posted by JG on October 4, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Victims of foreclosure"???????

Hard to imagine why the country is in such a mess.

Posted by flaven on October 4, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Refineries are a choke point. Because they have not invested sufficiently in refineries to increase gasoline supplies, oil companies have been unable to meet the growing demand in recent years...Oil companies have rejected the idea of constructing new refineries as impractical and too expensive."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/2...

Posted by redneck on October 4, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Smoke,
It is really that difficult for you and your ilk to accept the fact that our military is winning?

All your twisted and distorted viewpoints come from that leftist propaganda website, commondreams, and one of your links is over one year old. The commondreams homepage has over 160 links to various viewpoints, none of which are conservative and they include the likes of Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky, etc. Need I say more?

I would suggest you get it straight from the horse's mouth and listen to what General Odierno has to say:

"By November, we could claim that attacks had dropped to their lowest levels since 2004-2005. There were 30 attacks in al-Anbar province during the last week in October. One year prior, there had been over 300. Today there are under 20 incidents per week in all of Anbar."
"The change in attack trends in Baghdad was also dramatic; it reflected a marked reduction of nearly 60 percent. In 2006, civilian deaths throughout Iraq were over 3,000 in the month of December. In less than a year, they had plummeted by 70 percent. In the Baghdad Security Districts specifically, ethno-sectarian attacks and deaths decreased by 90 per­cent over the course of 2007."

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Nati...

Posted by IXLR82 on October 4, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"and if you look at the stats, it's not just the poor and the social engineering of the CRA, there are plenty of "upper middle class" defaulting on loans, plenty of dumb folks who refied to take money they never really had."

Yes, but it is still a marginally immaterial number. If you pull all the sub-prime bad loans out, we don't have a crisis, just an indicator of a slow economy.

I have never paid a penny in interest on a credit card, own all my cars outright, and have a tiny mortgage relative to my home's value (I could actually pay it off but don't want to, its at 4.5%). Is it because I grew up privileged and wealthy? No. My parents immigrated to the US (with nothing) after WWII and taught us to....drumrolll...not buy stuff we can't afford.

I think we are on the same page on this issue fish. If I recall we often are not, but this time we both appear to side with common sense.

PS- Flav, how ya doing?

I'm going camping with my kids...have a good weekend.

Posted by dmz on October 4, 2008 at 12:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

attention all " compassionate" conservatives blaming "Victims" (You know who you are).....Just how else would you describe an employee of a company that, through no fault of their own, loses their retirement and / or pension fund in the scams that the right has been perpetuating on taxpayers in the name of "privatization"....That's what they've been preaching since Reagan.
And yes, Clintons administration didn't do enough to see to it that "Reaganomics" wasn't aborted.
Enron, World Com, and right here in Colorado, Quest are only a few examples of the train wrecks that occur when those in power aren't regulated and held accountable.

Now, as far as foreclosures , Governor Gidget, (AKA Palin) had it right when she blamed "predatory lenders" for the mortgage meltdown, but they alone couldn't have pulled off one of the biggest bank heists in world history. They were "assisted" by lax regulators and complicit lawmakers, mostly Republican, who looked the other way while the events of the last 10 years were taking place.

And it wasnt only "stupid borrowers" who fell for the various scams out there.....125% loan-to value packages, ARMs, interest-only loans, reverse mortgages, etc. etc. were advertised heavily to less-than-savvy consumers while speculators made money hand over fist during each transaction, as loans were bundled, sold, then bundled and sold again and again.
And many of those consumers who fell for the scams were Granny and Gramps, living on fixed incomes, yet allowed to "borrow" against their own best interests.
And taxpayers should get relief, not only in the form of repayment with interest, but seeing to it that the criminals who profitted by misdeeds and are living off ill-gotten gains be prosecuted and given taxpayer-funded accomadations in the ol' greybar hotel.

And don't even get those of us on the left STARTED about the privatization of war, and the trillions THAT is costing U.S taxpayers.

"Privatization" is nothing but Fascism wearing a red necktie.

Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tom Davis Gives Up

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/mag...

The revolution is over, the thrill is gone and the Republican brand under President Bush has, in Davis’s view, been so tarnished that, as he likes to say, “if we were a dog food, they would take us off the shelf.” These will be Davis’s last few weeks in Congress. He decided against re-election, disaffected by the partisanship, by a process he calls broken, by a party he considers hijacked by social conservatives. “We’re just not getting much done,” he said. …

The way Davis sees it, the system has become dysfunctional. Bush has so destroyed the party’s public standing and Congress has become so infected with a win-at-all-costs mentality that there is no point in staying. …

Hey, I’ve got an idea – let’s elect a drunk hillbilly cowboy AWOL National Guardsman and failed elitist “businessman” from Skull & Bones as a two-term President, ignore Presidential Daily Briefings prior to 9/11 (and subsequently lie about those PDB’s), give him authority to wage illegal wars on sovereign nations, create a climate of fear and faux “War on Terror”, fail to respond to an epic crisis and rebuild the infrastructure of a major US city, and then to top it off wreck the US economy… We can support this illegally elected “President” for eight years, doing nothing to stop his criminal actions and then retire with a pension from Congress – Gosh Darn, life is good!

Posted by mcbuffs on October 4, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by IXLR82 at 8:32 am:
"Compassion has nothing to do with it."

I disagree. Compassion has everything to do with it. Why else would anyone think that someone else should pay for the stuff bought by a person who thinks they have a right to buy stuff they can't afford? Some people just feel sorry for those who are so poor that they can't afford to buy stuff or keep stuff they've already bought. They want to help those who are less fortunate than they are. That's called "compassion".

Regardless of whether or not you concur that compassion has anything "to do with it", do you agree or disagree that people on the right are just as compassionate as people on the left? As I previously said, I think they are. What do you think, IXLR82?

Posted by flaven on October 4, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gosh darn it, taos! There ya' go, pointin' to the past agin!.

Posted by phoenix_rises on October 4, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people "

Of course, lets not forget the pressure applied by the Bush administration:

Quote from a George W. Bush speech on Tuesday, Oct. 15, 2002:
"We’ve got to work to knock down the barriers that have created a homeownership gap. You don’t have to have a lousy home for first-time home buyers....the first-time home buyer, the low-income home buyer can have just as nice a house as anybody else. An ownership society is a compassionate society."
These socialist sounding remarks from Bush were from of an address he made during the White House Conference on Increasing Minority Homeownership at The George Washington University almost 6 years ago and opened the door for sub-prime mortgages." and
IXLR said, "Without lowering credit guidelines, none of this would have happened."

Wrong!
Regardless, all of this "pressure" didn't really alter the Fannie/Freddie porfolio significantly. The percentage of their portfolio to this co-hort increased from 44% to a mere 50%. Take away the natural forces of wanting to expand your market and the pressure resulted in very little change. Certainly not the $700 billion need for bailout kind of change.

Also quoted...""In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn..."
This is the most significant statement. Good economic times of the late 90s went away by the mid 2000s. Its not about the loans. Its about the economy! People had jobs, over extended themselves, lost their jobs, and then lost their homes.

I believe that Clinton and later Bush did have their heart in the right place. Unfortunately, the ecnomy did not continue to grow and expand.

Posted by dmz on October 4, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As Senator Biden said, "Past IS prologue."

We need only to remember just whos' policies the last 8 years got us to the point of asking.... " WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?"

VOTE OBAMA/BIDEN'08

Posted by jadam12 on October 4, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Fix interest rates on homes at 6%-7% so we don't have to bail them out. Banks will still make lots of money and many people get to keep their homes. Those that can't afford that rate obviously need to go back to the drawing board.

Abolish Adjustable Rate Mortgages period, home ownership is serious business and home ownership should not be treated like gambling in Vegas.

If I'm wrong let me know, because I can't see a better option for all of us.

Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Life in Hell (continued…)

Consider this… On 9/10/01 Rumsfeld said the following about the $2.3 trillion missing at the Pentagon, “In fact, it could be said it’s a matter of life and death.”

From that day forward there has been an incredible amount of carnage and destruction due to the events of 9/11 and the subsequent creation of the “Global War on Terror” not to mention the impending bankruptcy of the United States of America.

Two observations – The missing $2.3 trillion might have gone a long way in funding whoever was responsible for 9/11, as well as paying off complicit enablers and insiders. That same amount of money might have gone a long way in covering the costs of Paulson’s Plunder… I would be interested in finding out if any investigative reporting was done to find out what happened to that $2.3 trillion. And now we’re to understand that the Pentagon actually spends $10 trillion…?

Over what time period…?

The War On Waste
Defense Department Cannot Account For 25% Of Funds — $2.3 Trillion
LOS ANGELES, Jan. 29, 2002

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/0...

(CBS) On Sept. 10, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld declared war. Not on foreign terrorists, "the adversary's closer to home. It's the Pentagon bureaucracy," he said.

He said money wasted by the military poses a serious threat.

"In fact, it could be said it's a matter of life and death," he said.

Rumsfeld promised change but the next day – Sept. 11-- the world changed and in the rush to fund the war on terrorism, the war on waste seems to have been forgotten.

"According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions," Rumsfeld admitted.

Posted by CSminer on October 4, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There has been a huge increase in domestic refining capacity in the past 30 years. No new grassroots refineries have been built, however, due to nimbyism.

Posted by flaven on October 4, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gosh doggone darn it, not a single reference to nimbysim. Maybe it's just a personal, self-fulfilling fantasy?

From earlier: "Refineries are a choke point. Because they have not invested sufficiently in refineries to increase gasoline supplies, oil companies have been unable to meet the growing demand in recent years...Oil companies have rejected the idea of constructing new refineries as impractical and too expensive."

Posted by redneck on October 4, 2008 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

taoistblockhead "Hey, I’ve got an idea – let’s elect a drunk hillbilly cowboy AWOL National Guardsman and failed elitist “businessman” from Skull & Bones as a two-term President, ignore Presidential Daily Briefings prior to 9/11 (and subsequently lie about those PDB’s), give him authority....."

Too late! But you're probably going to what your want. That is a President with a g*d d*amn America mindset, terrorist loving, communist sympathizer, tax and spend liberal, with ties to so many shady people it is beyond belief and whose only experience outside of being a 'community organizer' (look up ACORN) is in running for President.

Posted by flaven on October 4, 2008 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Other than that, pinkneck, what's wrong with McSame?

Posted by sane on October 4, 2008 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Too late! But you're probably going to what your want. That is a President with a g*d d*amn America mindset, terrorist loving, communist sympathizer, tax and spend liberal, with ties to so many shady people it is beyond belief and whose only experience outside of being a 'community organizer' (look up ACORN) is in running for President."

Liar.

Posted by sane on October 4, 2008 at 7:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The electorate has one simple task to perform, to ignore the blizzard of new lies being dispensed by the people who lied us into the Iraq debacle and toss them out of office.

This task is so simple it looks as if even they will succeed.

Posted by redneck on October 4, 2008 at 8 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"This task is so simple it looks as if even they will succeed."

Imagine that! Typical leftist view of the electorate (a.k.a. the American people) as simpletons.

Lenny Bruce once said "The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them"

Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 8:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Redneck - Dick Cheney's car is out front and waiting for you... It's called "Taxi to the Dark Side." Thanks to neoconservatives and flag waving rednecks Amerika is now a Terrorist State.

The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a true American who served his country and sees the lies and hypocrisy. Unlike GW Bush who went AWOL as a National Guardsman and is a traitor to the United States Constitution.

Keep on buying the crap, it's what the moneyed elites like Bush want you to believe.

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." -Edward Abbey

Posted by rasinden57 on October 4, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a true American who served his country and sees the lies and hypocrisy. Unlike GW Bush who went AWOL as a National Guardsman and is a traitor to the United States Constitution."

This is unreal. The BS has become so deep that no doubt, sea level will continue to rise, and the methane production as a byproduct of the mental flatulence in this post will warm the world at least one degree C within just a few minutes. Why, I believe it feels warmer already!?

Posted by zar13 on October 4, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

right....left....blah,blah,blah. They are all the same. None of 'em are looking out for US. The "People".

Posted by taoistblockhead on October 4, 2008 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In addition to Bush, Cheney and Rice, let's make sure that Donald Rumsfeld is also sent to The Hague and tried for war crimes. They should all spend the rest of their lives in prison - perhaps Guantanamo...

Posted by flaven on October 4, 2008 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pinkneck: "...the electorate (a.k.a. the American people) as simpletons."

Gosh darn doggone it, pinkneck, there you go pointin' yo' finga on it agin.

There is a simpleton aspect to the adulation of McPalin, a certifiably clueless -- certainly vacuous -- heart throb...er...beat away from the red button.

Posted by sane on October 4, 2008 at 9:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Imagine that! Typical leftist view of the electorate (a.k.a. the American people) as simpletons."

No one in this world, so far as I know -- and I have researched the records for years, and employed agents to help me -- has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.
-- H. L. Mencken

Posted by sane on October 4, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"right....left....blah,blah,blah. They are all the same"

Speaking of simpletons, here's one now.

Posted by redneck on October 4, 2008 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

INsane:
It's interesting you quote H. L. Mencken who "... would have delighted in being called "anti-American"; his contrarian spirit and admiration of continental European culture (Germany especially) led him to mount unapologetically scathing attacks on nearly all aspects of American culture."

I guess that pretty much describes you and your mentors.

Posted by redneck on October 4, 2008 at 9:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

taoistblockhead: "The Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a true American ..."

You are such a freak that I will ignore your future posts as totally unworthy. You are also a liar! GW got an honorable discharge from the military with no AWOL charges against him. That just something you simply WANT to believe because of your BDS.

Posted by zar13 on October 4, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hahahaha, why....thank you.
That was a really lame statement. I agree. I'm still sorta stewin' over the $810 billion dollar thing. I'm feelin' kind of gutted. Please, don't get me wrong...I realize that this is the most important election of my lifetime. I am a bit concerned that my vote for change may not actually pan out though. Aren't you? That is what I was attempting to say. Either way (actual change or not) it will be better than our current path. That is just my uncomplicated opinion. I didn't mean to raise your ire. :)

Posted by dmz on October 5, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Redneck and his Herr Raisinden51 have a hard time understanding truth, as they've both been slurping from the same Republican Kool-Aid-filled trough .

That's O.K though, we in the center and to the left realize that there will always be Tim MacVeigh types who will take Rushs' ramblings as gospel.

We just need to make sure they don't get into the White House, or the Blair House.....EVER again.