Posted by jmcmahan on July 11, 2008 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

17th and Broadway do not intersect

Posted by Bing987 on July 11, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah yes. Those yellow "kill zones" claim another victim.

Those crossing zones have to be the stupidest ideas ever (and Boulder city makes a LOT of stupid decisions).

There is no reason that pedestrians and bicyclists can't cross at the nearest intersection with a traffic signal like real people have been doing for 100 years.

Too many kids think that pushing the yellow button gives them a magic shield that allows them to run out into traffic and all the cars will magically stop.

Obviously it is not the case, as this unfortunate boy found out the hard way.

When will Boulder stop encouraging kids to run out into traffic?

Posted by vrlaw on July 11, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Is a biker a pedestrian? Last time I checked they are not and they should not be using those crosswalks to cross the street on their bike. Those are for pedestrians...

I am sorry the boy is hurt, but there needs to clarification on that issue here in Boulder.

Posted by jenfalor on July 11, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

17th and Broadway do intersect: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&h...
Check out the Street View

-Jennifer Falor
online editor

Posted by wiseone on July 11, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry about this accident and while we don't have all the details, it comes as no surprise.
A day doesn't go by that I don't slam on my brakes for a bicyclist cruising through a "pedestrian" crosswalk, usually with no flashing lights as a warning to motorists.
They come out of nowhere at speeds that make stopping in time almost impossible.

Posted by cjonescu on July 11, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

According to city code, bicyclists are considered pedestrians in a crosswalk IF they enter the crosswalk at a walking speed.

Posted by JoeSmith on July 11, 2008 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jmcmahan...

You owe Jennifer an apology.

Posted by blacksho89 on July 11, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The drivers do not understand that a flashing yellow light means WATCH OUT?

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is too much to expect that pushing a button will magically make the drivers obey and follow the law.

Posted by bobmobber on July 11, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe if people could read anymore, they would return to making signs that say "Stop for pedestrians when lights are flashing." Then she would know.

Posted by dtbrvp on July 11, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Posted by bobmobber on July 11, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe if people could read anymore, they would return to making signs that say "Stop for pedestrians when lights are flashing." Then she would know."

Why, that is FAR too logical.

Great idea, but unfortunately, I still wouldn't trust most drivers to pay attention to road signs at crosswalks. I'll walk the extra couple blocks to a stop sign or traffic light.

All that yapping being said, I hope the cyclist is OK.

Posted by andy on July 11, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, yes, they intersect. That's on my old Camera paper route!

Posted by wa3lt on July 11, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Without trying to blame the victim here (for all we know, he was following all the rules), the ped crossings *are* stupid. You can walk/ride 150 yards in either direction and cross at a real traffic signal. If the city wants ped crossings, they need to have actual traffic lights, not the dumb blinkies. And if that's too much of a hassle, then they should make the traffic lights that are already there more responsive to pedestrians, or build more underpasses, or whatever.

I mean, if you fail to anticipate that some people are too dumb to A) yield to pedestrians at the flashing signs (it's not hard to tell what they're for), or B) walk/ride/skateboard slowly into the crosswalk having made *some* effort to make sure that cars are stopping, then the crosswalks are just a dumb idea. Unfortunately when it comes to traffic (both motorized and non) we've got to deal with the lowest common denominator of idiot. I say get rid of the crosswalks - as a matter of fact, extend the median strip to disourage people from crossing there.

We saw the aftermath of the accident and I'm glad the kid is ok. It was quite scary.

-Walt

Posted by Bod2_vob on July 11, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think Bing987 has it about right. I see very little reason that pedestrians must be sanctioned to cross between lights instead of at them. If it's an absolute necessity, e.g. bike trail, make it a bridge.

Posted by SoBoPop on July 11, 2008 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Best wishes to the young man and his family.

That section of Broadway is really scary. It's four lanes of high traffic and the students typically just hit the button and cross without looking or stopping. It can be particularly dangerous if there is a truck or other high profile vehicle on the the street obstructing the view of other drivers.

I think they should replace these dangerous crossings (and the one on Baseline too) with pedestrian red lights such as are in use on Table Mesa.

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't ban the blinkies, ban the cars.

Posted by saraconrd on July 11, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is really wonderful when as a someone who is trying to cross a street, when you push the button for lights to change in your favor, they actually do. If this was implemented here, as it is in Europe, traffic would slow down. Downside is it would take longer to get from point a to point b, but it would force people to drive slower.
Two traffic lights that I know of that are set like this are 1) on Folsom right before Glenwood, and on 19th where Floral hits it.
Maybe instead of yellow flashing lights they should be red.

Posted by bobmobber on July 11, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and my brother-in-law, a CU prof, was hit by a car in this area of Broadway. He has to wear a knee brace probably for the rest of his life. The kid (student) who hit him said "Sir, you walked into my car!"

Posted by mwiley on July 11, 2008 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

When are people going to learn to start taking responsibility for their actions and quit relying on others to do the thinking for them. Anyone that ASSUMES a car is going to see them when riding a bike or crossing the street is asking putting their life into someone they don't even know.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!

Posted by mcmann on July 11, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

These things are dangerous, but I find them to still be safer than crossing at intersections. Stand next to an intersection for a few minutes and watch how many of the people turning right on red do not look to the right until well after they start turning. It's quite alarming, and in the past couple days alone I've had to actually yell at two drivers through their open windows to get them to look. They otherwise would have pulled into me if I had stepped into the crosswalk when I had the green light.

At least if you're crossing at one of the flashy crosswalks, you don't have to deal with unobservant drivers making turns. You only have to deal with unobservant drivers going one of two directions.

Posted by nuggethillrd on July 11, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I still cannot understand why Boulder has to have its special 'only in Boulder' crosswalks, instead of the type used universally throughout north America, with a light for traffic and 'walk-don't walk sign for pedestrians. As well, a conventional light has a yellow warning light to warn drivers the light is about to change. And typically, these 'Boulder' crosswalks are within half a block of an intersection, with conventional walk-don't walk lights.

Posted by PhilR on July 11, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Boulder is continuous host to folks from other cities/states/countries who already understand the standard red/yellow/green traffic signals. Obviously some do not understand the blinkies. So replace the blinkies with standard traffic lights that are synchronized with other nearby standard traffic lights. Pedestrians and cyclists would be spared the extra half block effort to cross at an intersection and motor traffic flow would be smoother. Save lives, save gas.

Posted by citrin on July 11, 2008 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Regardless of the merits of these crossings, I would not recommend stepping in front of approaching traffic at a pedestrian crossing until I actually saw the approaching cars slowing down and coming to a stop. It's just common sense.

Posted by johnbarleycorn on July 11, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Even worse is the flashing signal at the top of the hill on Broadway past Linden. You're taking your life into your hands if you cross that and expect cars to stop. I've counted 10-12 cars that drive through that while I'm waiting to cross. People yakking away on cellphones and barreling up that hill or the other way into town. Amazing nobody has been killed there yet.

Posted by Doc_Brinkley on July 11, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bicyclists must ride d-e-f-e-n-s-i-v-e-l-y, because even if the cyclist is "right" he still loses in any accident with a car.

Not a difficult concept to grasp -- but the Boulder cycling posers encourage a wrongheaded sense of entitlement.

Posted by SoBoPop on July 11, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The blinkies were put in as a political statement in support of getting folks out of the car. But, the saftty issue should be obvious to the city by now. Fix the problem by keeping the crosswalks and putting in red lights. A slight inconvenience for peds to have to wait for the light to turn, but safer for peds and drivers alike and will save the city boatloads of money in litigation costs.

I realize that this is a practical solution and, as such, will not be taken seriously by the city.

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, what happened to all the "he ran the stop sign" crowd from a few weeks back.

Hey folks, its not the peds fault.
Its not the crosswalks fault.
Its the driver! She broke the law. Flash means stop.

Posted by lafayettelooney on July 11, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Since when is riding a bicycle through a cross walk considered a pedestrian?
Last I knew is to be legal you had to dismount the bicycle and walk it through the cross-walk.

If the bicycleist approached the crosssalk and didn't stop it would be had for any motor vehicle to stop in time.

Posted by SoBoPop on July 11, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

citrin, as a parent of older teens with many acquiantances, I can tell you that common sense is in relatively short supply among young people at CU and in our high schools.

Posted by thearchitect on July 11, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I actually had two pedestrians step out in front of my car at the 9th and Canyon intersection, even though my light was green and they had a big fat red hand at their crosswalk. One of the two (probably high school) girls yelled at me that pedestrians had the right of way. I wanted to yell back, "You don't, and if I had not been paying attention enough to slow down and swerve, you would have been dead!" What are they teaching them in school these days? I remember learning about crosswalks in Kindergarten! Even at intersections, you get ill informed people. I guess that is the point of my vent.
Regarding this incident, I feel sorry for the kid. Kids don't always have the best judgement. At 9:30 PM, did his bike have the proper night gear? You have to be slow and deliberate. The lady should have been slow and cautious too. But, you must realize that no matter how right you think you are, as a pedestrian, it will hurt more for you.

Posted by chucklehead on July 11, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It was a silent eco-pod of death that hit the kid at the blinky thing. Good intentions gone bad on multiple levels.

Posted by elirenfro on July 11, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Prius drivers.

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lafayettelooney
"Last I knew is to be legal you had to dismount the bicycle and walk it through the cross-walk."

Wrong, slow roll since just over 2 years ago.

thearchitect,
'But, you must realize that no matter how right you think you are, as a pedestrian, it will hurt more for you."

Perhaps the peds should arm themselves to ensure that it will hurt the drivers more. Then they may yield the right of way and actually obey the traffic laws.

Posted by fbog on July 11, 2008 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope the kid's ok. And I hope the incident will get the city to rethink the blinkies. 17th and Broadway is a death-trap. Put in a stop light or get rid of the crosswalk.

Posted by mcmann on July 11, 2008 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A Boulder statute recognizes bicycles as pedestrians when in a cross walk. The rider, however, must be going under 5 mph. No dismount required.

Posted by lafayettelooney on July 11, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

phoenix_rises & mcmann thanks for clarifying the law for me.

I hope it also clarifies if for the numerous bicyclist I see going through the crosswalks without even slowing.

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lafayettelooney,

I agree. reminds me of the old frogger video game.

Posted by Doc_Brinkley on July 11, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Phoenix_rises, what part of "Boulder boy, 16, suffers serious injuries after being hit by car" do you not understand?

So what if he had the right of way? He's still in the hospital, you idjit! Had he been trained to protect himself by riding defensively -- not ever trusting the other guy with his life -- he probably would have avoided this accident.

Geez, Louise, your spandex shorts must be cutting off oxygen to your brain!

Posted by Guli on July 11, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have percieved these cross walks as one of the most dangerous things the city has done. When the freshman beauty queen's body was severed in half on the hill because she pushed the button walked out without looking and got nailed by someone speeding you would have thought that was enough but no they made more of them all over town. Us Boulder drivers are aware of these things and use caution but when people from else where come who are unaware that such stupid things exist they do not know what is going on.

How much did it cost us to install each of these too? Considering all the horribly pathetic traffic circles cost 25k per I would assume each of these must have been 50k?

For those of you arguing walk to the next intersection what would you propose for the area on the hill where all the students cross and there are no lights for what 4 blocks? Something better needs to be divised.

Posted by blacksho89 on July 11, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Who will pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars to replace the blinkies with full traffic signals?

Anybody?

For pete's sake, just slow down! Riders, peds, and drivers. I promise, you'll still get there.

Posted by yayo on July 11, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The kid was wearing Crox, so was the driver.

Posted by glen on July 11, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What did this woman think flashing yellow lights at a sign posted as cross-walk meant?

These signs are not that hard to grasp, even if you are seeing them for the first time.

That really should be enough of a warning that you need to take some action as a driver. Evidently this woman saw the flashing yellow lights, didn't know what they meant (yeah right) and blithely motored on.

Posted by clackmon on July 11, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

those crossings are scary. even if one lane stops there is no guarantee the adjacent one will. and if you are walking out in front of a stopped bus or truck you can't even see the next lane. most of the time the people i see crossing aren't even looking at traffic. its a miracle there hasn't been more carnage. it doesn't help that some people don't even use the signals or that they try to cross right when the flashing is over.

i am in agreement with those that are suggesting actual traffic signals since everyone would cross together instead of one or two at a time. plus there is far less ambiguity regarding when traffic will be stopped. underpasses are expensive but we could use one in that section...safer for pedestrians and way less traffic snarl when classes let out.

regarding the people that want to cross with their bikes? get off and walk across, don't fly through there at speed and expect to get away with it forever.

Posted by native on July 11, 2008 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nuggethillrd

They have them in Broomfield and Westminster too.

Even so, I've made sure my kids understand that you still can't cross until you're sure the (often self-absorbed) driver slows to a stop. Personally, I hock a lugie onto windshield of cars that fail to stop. They seem to feel the need to stop after that, too bad a flashing light doesn't evoke the same desire.

Posted by SirRealism on July 11, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SoBoPop: I believe your statement might be false:

"The blinkies were put in as a political statement in support of getting folks out of the car."

Actually, I think the two blinkies at the Broadway location were in deirect response to the Busstop stripper that was flying 70 m.p.h. down B-Way in order to get to Perkins or Denny's. She killed a pedestrian.

Posted by Guli on July 11, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Native, do you hock lugies on cars the second after you push the button. Smart to teach your kids to not trust the light but come on.

There needs to be a slow down period kind of like the yellow light between green and red. Stopping all the traffic on broadway during rush hour anytime a person wants to cross is also ludicrous as the traffic problem was already horrible before they did this.

Posted by dogmom228 on July 11, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is Boulder County we're talking about - the place where ALL pedestrians (stupid or not) have the right of way. What happened to pedestrians looking out for vehicles? Last time I checked, a car is considerably larger than a pedestrian and takes MUCH longer to stop than a person. Hope the kid learned a lesson. Out-of-state folks don't understand the goings on in the Peoples' Republic of Boulder.

Posted by onimity on July 11, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I saw the aftermath of this crash as I was riding home on the Broadway bike path last night... I'm no expert but it looked like the bike was thrown pretty far from the crosswalk. The accident scene was huge. I don't think she was driving cautiously.

Glad to hear the kid is okay, the driver is really lucky his injuries weren't life threatening.

Posted by ecofool on July 11, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just for those of you that never leave the couch...other places have these types of crosswalks. In fact, I've seen them in Florida...which is where the driver is from.

also,as it's been stated, Colorado law was changed and you are NOT required to dismount a bicycle...you just need to be at a walking pace.

hope the boy gets well soon.

Posted by SCR75 on July 11, 2008 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Main Street Longmont has the pedestrian crossings, but minus the flashing lights.
"Kill Zone" is a good nickname for them.
On the pedestrian side there are signs instructing to wait for a clearing, cross the the center median, wait for another clearing and continue. The trouble is if the right lane of traffic is stopped or slowed due to an unsure ped and driver the left lane has blocked view of this and dosent know if a ped is crossing or not. About the time you see the ped is about the same moment they roll up on your hood.

Posted by MuddyOne on July 11, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

no sympathy for the driver. if you actually hit someone you're a Fool, and should have to at least re-take the full driving exam with the goofy recorder sitting next to you. If you can't control your car then you should not be behind the wheel.

also, no sympathy for people who expect that the blinking lights stop traffic - too many bozos pimping their rides on Broadway like it's a Speedway will make you pay for it. You have to think defensively and expect that drivers are mental second-class citizens.

You're a tool if you drive broadway during rush hour, and a toolshed if you do it when you live AND work in town.

slow the f down

Posted by native on July 11, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Guli, nope I let it blink for about five to ten seconds. Enough time for a car going a few miles per over the speed limit to safely stop. It's the ones that don't even slow down that get the phlegm bomb. Even so, I can only educate one driver at a time that way. I would be nice if drivers would pay attention to their surroundings more than the 12 foot asphalt tunnel they travel in.

Posted by JohnCronin on July 11, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I thought bikes were to be viewed the same way as cars...this makes no sense. Who doesnt know what flashing lights mean? Sounds like two stupid people literally ran into each other.

Posted by JCBoston on July 11, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok...those who say "It wasn't the ped's fault" obviously weren't aware that he was on his bike and not a ped at the time. Bicyclists crossing from sidewalk to sidewalk while on their bikes do not technically have the right of way. They generally come out a lot faster than people walking and still expect drivers to stop for them. I can't count the number of times some dumba$$ on a bike has darted out in front of me forcing me to slam on my brakes. That being said, (and I'm not necessarily blaming the bicyclist), the excuse that the woman didn't know that blinking lights meant that pedestrians in a crosswalk have the right of way is a crock. Pedestrians in a crosswalk ALWAYS have the right of way in every state in the union, and care should always be exercised when driving over one (crosswalk, not pedestrian). The only hitch to this case that I see coming up in legal action is that the kid decided not to be a pedestrian and instead attempted to ride his bike across the road.

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doc_Brinkley,

You're right. You can not trust drivers.

Why are you so angry with all of your name calling?

Posted by phoenix_rises on July 11, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JCBoston,
..."obviously weren't aware that he was on his bike and not a ped at the time. Bicyclists crossing from sidewalk to sidewalk while on their bikes do not technically have the right of way...."

As established by others in previous posts. It does not matter if he was walking or on his bike at the time. He is a ped in the crosswalk in the eyes of the law. All that is required is that he enters at something like 4-5 mph.

Posted by jadam12 on July 11, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I always wave at the driver before crossing and wait to see a response before crossing. I learned that from working around heavy equipment and trucks on mine and construction sites. You always signal and wait for acknowledgement from the operator of your presence before you make a move.

When I drive, I always wave at workers along the road to let them know that I see them, they appreciate it for the same reason. I also always at least slow down when I see any blinking light in the road ahead of me and stop where required.

I think we should teach everyone to signal eachother in these situtations and wait for acknowledgment

Yes, all of this is common sense, but accidents do happen. Such is life.

Posted by mcman on July 11, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder what happens when crosswalk entitled Boulder residents move to cities where pedestrians aren't catered to and are expected to act defensively (Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh)? I imagine the learning curve is pretty steep. Not that these cities are scary to walk around in. You just need to pay attention and wait a few minutes for a light to change. It's not that difficult.

Too bad the kid got hurt.

Posted by boulderhippie on July 11, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe we should make visitors to Boulder watch a video on the Boulder's laws, then they can wear a collar and green tag while they are here so that we know they understand how the smartest people in the United States live.

Or, maybe they can turn those crosswalks into tunnels like the ones down the street and end this type of thing all together.

Posted by HALsaves on July 11, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lafayettelooney, It is both state and city law that bikes can use crosswalks and be treated as a pedestrian as long as they enter the walk at pedestrian speeds.

Posted by BoulderMayor on July 11, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I can understand a driver being confused by the blinkies, given the level of visual pollution on the road. I mean, consider the radar speeding signs that flash blue/red, like a real emergency vehicle -- the message from those translates to "slow down, you may be going a little fast" and compare that to the message from the little yellow blinking lights, that without prior knowledge would be translated as "warning -- for some reason" but really mean "jump on the brakes NOW you are about to kill someone".

There are dozens of blinking yellow lights, normally they can all be safely ignored, but not this one!

Make it a stop light or pull them out.

Posted by wiseone on July 11, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PEDESTRIAN

pedestrian[1,adjective]pedestrian[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1pe·des·tri·an
Pronunciation: \pə-ˈdes-trē-ən\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin pedestr-, pedester, literally, going on foot, from ped-, pes foot — more at foot
Date: 1716
1: commonplace, unimaginative
2: going or performed on foot b: of, relating to, or designed for walking

Posted by strike3 on July 11, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Very glad the young man will recover from his injuries. He's a lucky guy.

But it is simply a matter of time until one of these car/pedestrian incidents results in loss of life.

Who in their right mind would design these crosswalks that place pedestrians at the mercy of approaching cars going full speed in mid-block between regular traffic signals? Especially on the two of the busiest and most congested streets in Boulder: Broadway and 28th St.

The answer is nobody. Nobody except the rabid extremist anti-car nuts who led the charge to have these blinking death trap crossings put in. The leader of these loonies is Spencer Havlik, a former long-time city council member (himself the owner of a nice luxury automobile.)

Cars and pedestrians DON'T mix. But Havlik and his ilk were orgasmic about forcing them to in these blinking killing zones as a pedestrian-uber-alles political statement.

Drivers make mistakes all the time. Check with any body shop or emergency room. As the streets of this town grow more congested with traffic the odds keep going up that one of these mistakes is going to cost someone their life in one of these blinking crosswalks.

And when, not if, that fatality occurs, think about Havlik. And think about the current city Transportation Dept. bureaucrats that allow this Russian roulette to continue on our streets.

P.S. It is often difficult to even see the pedestrians in these crossings at night.

P.S.S. Broadway in the vacinity of the University needs a pedestrian underpass to safely convey people across that major thoroughfare.

Posted by fgd135 on July 11, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I drove by the accident scene shortly afterwards. Err,I was actually diverted into the campus for a short detour around the scene.
Those ped crossings are dangerous for everyone, drivers and peds alike, and should be replaced by a tunnel or by an overhead bridge structure. Boulder only put those yellow street level crossings in to save money over any other more sensible options.
If you look back to when they were installed, maybe 10-15 years ago(?) there was a lot of discussion about the merits of the street-level v. overhead crossings; the city decided to save money and build em like they are now, and created the true hazards that exist today and unfortunatley last night.
Imho, a better solution would be to put fencing along the entire frontage of the University on Broadway and funnel peds and riders towards one or two (new)overhead ped crossings, the existing tunnel at College Av., and the existing intersections with red/green traffic signals.

Posted by Dunkterfunk on July 11, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those crosswalks are very convenient for me when i am walking and I am sure they are there to reward those who choose to walk or bike. However, it is only a matter of time before something like this happened.

Pedestrians in this town almost dare people to hit them when they walk out without even looking just because they have the right of way. This is a tourist town and many people come in the summer who have never seen this type of crosswalk before. You can't blame them for immediately knowing what it is.

I almost ran into a few poeple myself when I fisrt moved to Boulder. I now know the Boulder laws, but something like this was bound to happen involving a tourist. Feel bad for the kid though.

Posted by Longtime_Reader on July 11, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A remarkable amount has already been said. In addition to concern for the injured cyclist - here is another perspective: World-wide 1.2 million people are killed in traffic accidents each year. As more of the world's population follows Americans in using automobiles - that number will skyrocket. No matter what you do, where pedistrians, cyclists and autos mix under intensive use there will be injuries and fatalaties. We should work to make the travel facilities as safe as we can afford to - but we will not eliminate human error and bad judgement. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vital...

Like it on not, safety is not the supreme priority to the exclusion of all others; if it was, either we would have no motor vehicles or we would have under/overpasses at every major intersection and red STOP lights at crossings that don't warrant an underpass. In Boulder, as in most places, there is an effort to balance multiple priorities. Banning private motor vehicles ranks near inconcievable for most Americans - but it might do the most to improve safety; having 10x more underpasses would help too but it would be extremely expensive = higher taxes which voters strongly oppose in many places. A friend of mine was badly injured by a speeding bicyclise while walking through an underpass. Traffic flow is another priority - the blinky lights do slow down traffic but much less so than either an immediate red at the push of a button or a red you have to wait for that is in-sequence with the nearest signal; they also cost less than a full signalized intersection and far less than an underpass. Increasing stop-and-go = increasing greenhouse gas emissions and air pollution.

Legally, there is a crosswalk (peds have the right of way) anywhere a sidewalk enters a roadway - even if it isn't highlighted with paint. If you take out the blinky lights, people still have the right of way and still will cross in large numbers - but with less visible warning to drivers. I find the blinky lights pretty attention getting at night - in the daytime they are more part of all the visual clutter - they may need to be higher up, larger and/or brighter in the day time - perhaps shaped like a pedestrian so that they communicate more directly with non-English readers and with people unfamiliar with this safety technology.

Posted by jgarcia on July 11, 2008 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was once hit by a car as I was biking in a sidewalk crossing the exit of a parking lot into a street. After the accident I learned from the police that it was my fault since I was on a sidewalk going faster than a "pedestrian expected speed". I clearly understood how my speed meant that I entered the field of view of the driver faster than what he expected for the situation.

So I took my scrapes, my twisted wheel, went home and learned a lesson.

If the driver can prove that the bike entered the crossing faster than the speed of a pedestrian, then the driver is not at fault.

BTW, Glad the kid is OK.

Posted by tillie6584 on July 11, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i'm not going to take sides on this at all. but i do want to say that the yellow lights at those intersections flash far longer than it actually takes to walk across the street. that means that there are very often yellow lights flashing with no pedestrians in sight. drivers learn to ignore the flashing yellow lights because they don’t signal anything most of the time.

Posted by jgarcia on July 11, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In a related matter, most intersections in Boulder are death traps when it comes to cyclist vs. cars. For example, I drive often west bound in Colorado avenue to go to campus. I usually turn left at Regent Dr. While doing so, the pedestrian light on Colorado avenue's south side is white so I am very careful before I accelerate to cross. So here I go, no pedestrians, keep going, all the sudden a bike runs like a torpedo across the crossing, I hit the brakes stalling in the middle of the other lane while traffic approaches. Sounds familiar???

Posted by katiekurt on July 11, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perhaps they need to change the lights from flashing yellow to RED.

Posted by wewantfun on July 11, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are a lot of people on here who do more driving than walking or biking. Hence they have an inflated sense of entitlement to the road system. Driving is a privilege in our society. It is best to remember that. Get out of your cars and try getting around under your own power and maybe you will loose some of the weight that you have gained by sitting on your computer all day judging others...

Posted by msw222 on July 11, 2008 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A simple fix: make them red lights. They are dangerous for all community members.

Posted by jimcarr65 on July 11, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and the roadside sobriety test determined that she was not drunk?! She had "more than a glass of wine before driving". I think a breathalyzer was in order, but she probably got away with it because she was a nice little ole lady from out of town.

Posted by theatv on July 11, 2008 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, DC....
What is the point of addressing the young man as a Boulder High Student? School isn't in session, it's Thursday night in July, and the incident happened south of campus which isn't close to BHS.

Sometimes I wonder if anyone can write a lead. If you're going to include the driver's quote, why not also include the reason the young man was crossing at this location? Was he the person who pressed the blinkie button or was he attempting to join in with a ped who was already half-way across? What lane was the driver using? What was the traffic like at the time? How many accidents occur at this location or along this section of Broadway?

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt. So, DC, other than using up a few inches of space in print, what was the point of the story? Maybe, like my small town newspaper, you can maintain a police blotter in the local section?

Posted by J_Rob_2001 on July 12, 2008 at 2:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Was he RIDING his bike or walking his bike? Big differnce in what is legal since RIDING your bike is actually illegal in a crosswalk. Plus driving a PRIUS redeems all.

Posted by zpuldy on July 12, 2008 at 3:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

old people suck at driving

Posted by BoulderReader on July 12, 2008 at 3:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Diamond shaped signs means "Caution - slow down". Flashing yellow lights mean "caution - slow down". Triangular shaped signs mean "yield".
None of these shapes or lights mean stop. Boulder has erected "yield" signs with yellow flashing lights that direct motorists to "stop when pedestrians are in crosswalk".

Unfortunately the "yield" signs with yellow flashing lights that direct motorists to "stop when pedestrians are in crosswalk" have been interpreted by many Boulderites to mean that this gives them license to step into the crosswalk in front of moving vehicles, as if "yield to pedestrians in crosswalk" also means "yield to pedestrians on sidewalk waiting to cross".

Meanwhile, the motorist inteprets the signs and lights to mean only what they say which is either "caution - slow down" or "yield to pedestrians in crosswalk", and not what they DO NOT say which is "yield to pedestrians waiting on sidewalk to cross".

Coupled with the above confusion between motorists who learned what the signs do mean and do not mean when they studied for their driving test is the dictionary definition of pedestrian that Boulder's Municipal code writers have chosen to contradict.

The dictionary provides two definitions of pedestrian. (1)one who walks. (2)unimaginative.

Years ago a Boulder bicyclist colliede with the side of my motor vehicle. I was cited for "failure to yield to a pedestrian". I contested this in court with the dictionary definition of "pedestrian" contrasted with Boulder's Municipal code definition which indeed does include bicyclist, although I did not know that prior to researching my defense.

Because the law gives weight to "the plain meaning" of words, under the assumption that this is what citizens will know better than arcane idiosyncratic meanings such as that in Boulder's Municipal code, I won my case by having my charge dismissed.

Specifically, when I argued that pedestrian means either "one who walks" or "unimaginative" and then asserted that one would have to be prettry darned imaginative to think that a bicyclist was "one who walks", the city prosecutor dropped the charge.

Posted by mati on July 12, 2008 at 5:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jesus christ, a 16 year old kid gets hit by a car and this is an occasion for everyone to rant about their personal feelings about Boulder laws, pedestrians, etc. WTF?

Where is your humanity?

You weren't there. You don't know if the kid waited or if he "just assumed that the car would stop for him".

Even if he didn't- don't you make a mistake once in a while? If so, should we all be jumping on you in a public forum when it happens?

Probably both the kid and the driver acted in good faith, reasonably expecting that they were doing the right thing and enjoying their day.

It's called an "accident" for a reason.

There's nothing wrong with blinky lights, there's nothing wrong with pedestrians getting the right of way, and there's CERTAINLY nothing wrong with having multiple crosswalks (those who suggest otherwise, trying walking 150 yards out of your way two or three times a day just to go to your work or school and see if you still feel that way).

Jeesh, wish insomnia hadn't gotten me out of bed to see the crap this town spits out sometimes.

Posted by saraconrd on July 12, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I had been thinking about this all day and about the blinking light crosswalks in Boulder that I know about. By far, the most stupid places and potential most dangerous are the new ones on 28th street - by Whole Foods/Bicycle Village and the ones further north by Safeway. Those are accidents waiting to happen (if anyone even dares to use them).
Last night on the way home at the blinking lights on Folsom by the gas station, some girl rode her bike out about 15 feet in front of me and the lights weren't even blinking! It's just a bad combination.

Posted by oilburner on July 12, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

you folks assuming the crosswalks are for peds only are 100% wrong. I don't care who's dictionary def. it is - it isn't the legal definition with respect to those crosswalks.

Some of them even have metal trips on the street (Folsom/Walnut) so the bicycle doesn't even have to dismount and push the button - the lights blink as you ride over the sensor!

So keep you prejudices to yourself and focus on the facts - bicycles are legal crosswalkers - respect the law!

Posted by dc on July 12, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

phoenix_rises:
Glad to hear of the change. I remember being pulled over for doing a slow crossing on my bike about 7 years across Baseline at 20th St. At the time - and maybe still - one could not actually wait for the light to change because the intersection could only detect cars, not bikes, being in it for the light to change. So I tried to compromise by being a pedestrian to change the light by pressing the button. But as the officer so kindly explained to me, that just made it a pedestrian crossing, not a bike crossing.

So at least in this one aspect, we are marginally more logical.

Posted by MK_Love on July 12, 2008 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

yes, wiseone, you can read a dictionary. Now can you read the law?

Posted by otherwhitemeat on July 12, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These crosswalks make as much sense as the red lights on the Foothills Parkway. Completely stupid design done under the assumption that they'll encourage less driving.

Oil - the crosswalks with the imbedded strips are some of the worst. They let the cyclist "zip" through without even stopping or slowing to push the button. I can't count the number of times that bikes have shot out (well above pedestrian speeds) thinking that vehicles will magically be stopped b/c of the imaginary protective shield that a few blinking yellow (slow down) not red (stop) lights provide.

Legal or not bikers need to use common sense or this will continue to happen.

Posted by pjs on July 12, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This accident, as well as all others involving bicycles, is simply a function of natural selection. Yet it seems the intelligence level of the riders fails to increase?

Posted by vicky.green on July 12, 2008 at 9:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

With all its efforts to be ped and bike friendly Boulder has only succeeded in caution overkill. The result is way too many crossings, with and without flashing lights; speed bumps; traffic circles; and informational signs. In sum, they create a giant cautionary blur and actually exacerbate the problem. In many cases they do create a sense of false security for the peds/bikers, who feel they are surrounded by some sort of "safety zone" as they move through Boulder.

Posted by nuggethillrd on July 12, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

All these people complaining about automobiles being not seeing pedestrians and/or bicycles should walk in London, U.K. There, autos not only ignore pedestrians, but do so at speeds upwards of 45 miles per hour! Growing up in Boulder as a kid I was always told to walk defensively, as well as drive defensively. When walking, as a matter of my own preservation, I always make note of cars near the intersection, that they are aware of my presence, and that they are coming to a stop before venturing across a street. That's just common sense, unfortunately a commodity all too often lacking too much in Boulder now.

Posted by jadam12 on July 12, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PJS posits;" This accident, as well as all others involving bicycles, is simply a function of natural selection. Yet it seems the intelligence level of the riders fails to increase?"

Most bike riders also drive cars, so we operate with the perceptions of both forms of transportation. Everyone is a pedestrian at some point throughout the day.

Yes this accident was unfortunate, but since this type of occurance is still fairly rare, one can conclude that most drivers, bikers and pedestrians understand the rules and have a workable level of common sense.

Maybe, pjs, if you tried multiple forms of transportation besides just driving you wouldn't make such ignorant comments.

Posted by jadam12 on July 12, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Us vs Them attitude is a real problem. We should stop judging people based on how they transport themselves and come to the realization that we are all just in the process of transporting ourselves in a variety of ways and that all forms of transportation are acceptable.

That means that drivers, bikers and pedestrians have to look out for themselves and by doing so also look out for eachother. If driving on Broadway past the University is a challenge than you should slow down so you have time to make sense of all of the signs and warning lights.

If you drive that route regularly, then you should know instinctually what may occur at any given time or place and drive accordingly. Just like bikers and pedestrians should at least look both ways and wait untill traffic comes to a stop before crossing.

Non of this is rocket science and it is not a battle of rights between different modes of transportation either. If you have that attitude, then you should seriously take the time to find a new pespective before being a danger to yourself and society.

Posted by respectsnothing on July 12, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a pedestrian myself (both foot and bike) I don't trust those crosswalks and act with common sense, regardless of whether I have the right of way or not. I use those particular crosswalks alot, as well as, the ones up on north 28th & Iris and on Canyon next to the city building with my kids in tow. I'm teaching my kids that though the law says "peds have the right of way in a crosswalk" you will always lose when encountering a moving vehicle whether it be bike or car. Make eye contact with the driver's before crossing so that they see you and you see them.

With that said it's good to hear that this kid will survive. Hopefully he and the driver learned a lesson, the hard way.

Posted by wiseone on July 12, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MK_Love- The law, as it is written, is partly to blame.
These mid-block crosswalks (which surely were created for the lazy or stupid) are ridiculous and dangerous.
A bike is a two wheeled vehicle.
Rider dismounts and becomes a pedestrian.
Easy.

Posted by thelastliberal on July 12, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Either person involved in this accident could have prevented it.

FYI: As I understand it, traffic laws never give anyone the right of way...they only say who must yield the right of way to someone else.

Everyone -- drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians -- should be careful in, on, and around those crosswalks.

In this case, two people weren't, and the one without the seatbelt and protection of a steel box got hurt.

Posted by Candidate_Brigham on July 12, 2008 at 9:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think we should begin prohibiting vehicles into downtown and make part of it all pedestrian. Congestion is becoming a major problem and with our energy difficulties, it is time to look towards a future whereby we use public transportation, like light rail, from Arapahoe to Valmont, from 30th to 9th.
No more cars!
And, meanwhile, lets institute a congestion tax for use of vehicle in these areas to finance it.

Posted by pjs on July 12, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jadam12 - re: "Maybe, pjs, if you tried multiple forms of transportation besides just driving you wouldn't make such ignorant comments."

You obviously don't understand Natural Selection. It is THE reason I DO NOT use other forms of transportation - get it?

Posted by getcraziesout on July 14, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

my boyfriend was hit in a crosswalk on Canyon by an RTD bus, he survived but was only offered $750 for injuries when his medical bills were over $2000. He was walking his custom chopper bike which took the brunt of the hit (and was destroyed) and they only paid for 1/2 of the value of the bike. Bus driver Randall Moss, who seemed like he had palsy, didn't even apologize. Isn't the first time and won't be the last.

Posted by benke on July 14, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These killer lights have got to go.

I cross Canyon at 11th every day to get to work, and I usually don't bother pressing the button for the lights. Cars only stop half the time anyway, and that's in the best of viewing conditions when the morning/evening sunlight isn't blinding the drivers. I refuse to put my life into someone else's hands. I'd rather just wait to cross the street until there's no traffic, thank you.

In terms of energy expended, global warming, etc, it's ridiculous to force 20 cars to stop & start just so I can cross the street a few seconds sooner. The whole idea behind these lights violates basic physics in other ways... in any tangle between a ped or bike and a car, the car will always win. Only in Boulder would one expect anything else. Sigh.

From what I've seen, most bikers don't wait, they don't hit the button for the lights, and they just fly out into the traffic without thinking. Worse, if I'm standing there waiting and a biker or another ped comes along, they usually assume I've hit the button (i.e. they don't look at the lights either, duh).

Well, enough said. I hope the boy is OK and the driver isn't too traumatized either. This could happen to anyone, and the real fault lies with whoever built these dumb lights in the first place.